First topic message reminder :

..grows a bit like this.

Good morning Guys

Think we might have a problem so will need your advice please.

The new concreted are a for the kitchen, the deeper read areas  here

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Seems to be flaking away. We have kept it clear of snow but in doing so we noticed it is flaking/crumbling awa.  I was thinking of putting stone varnish on when the weather gets better but is there something else we can use that will seal it please.

Thank you so much

Hi Berni
That's annoying before we bombard you with suggestions/possible solutions a couple of questions.

If remember right, back when you were doing this, you mixed the colour with the cement mix? was that colour water-based (i.e mixed with water then added to the cement? did you add any sealer in with that?

Flaking and peeling is an indication that the stain failed to bond with the concrete due to excessive moisture. is the problem in localised area's or all over?

There are treatments available but it would be good to know the cause before you go spending out on the wrong one?

Below link will outline problems with cement see if any cover your problem.

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Bill

I'm on the same track as Bill...any chance of a close up pic of the surface?

Hi Berni
How frustrating and annoying is that. Bill has passed on to you a very good link and I would add that frost can also have an effect if it gets into concrete that contains moisture
I don't know if it helps, but when I've laid concrete I have always put a DPC membrane down prior to any concreting I've done. I am not sure if sealing it now would have the desired effect if there is still moisture in the concreted area
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I too have had problems when using pigment with cement/concrete 2 years ago I needed to repoint my ridge tiles the mortar was so fragile I could crush a fist size piece to powder in the palm of my hand. If you decide in the future to use coloured cement I would advise using a good plasticizing agent (PVA), I know this is a bit horse, stable door, bolted but it may save you grief in the future

Ah bless you all thanks a million for your replies.

We used the powder and just put one dry cup in the whole mix and no no sealent was used but we know better next time now. The last slab was made with cenment I bought from the next village and even when they were doing it they said the sand had too many stones and it was not binding as good as the rest, so could be the cements. I have take close up so you can see

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I was thinking and this is only a thought but would probably work. We have coated all the wood in lack and also used the oil stuff you suggested and it preserves the wood hence no need to paint for a good while, so was thinking mix some of this stuff with the lac or stone varnish and pour it over and brush it in. I think this would seal it.

Hi Berni

Quote :

We have coated all the wood in lack and also used the oil stuff you suggested and it preserves the wood hence no need to paint for a good while, so was thinking mix some of this stuff with the lac or stone varnish and pour it over and brush it in.

OK your idea is a mix and hope idea (IMHO) will the oil mix properly with the lac? the lac used for wood is different to stone lac

Quote :

when they were doing it they said the sand had too many stones and it

Sounds like you had ballast, not sand, which does have various size pebbles/stones, and possibly different mixes? were the second bags of cement the same colour coded as the first? some have green band some have an orange or red band. The PVA should have gone in at the initial mix.

Looking at it as if it was my issue I would be considering:-

1. Heavy brush off of all the loose/flakey surface, another mix (with above suggestions) and a skim the top with a new layer.
OR
2. heavy brush off, Obtain a surface PVA solution and paint in then cover with a good quality External Masonry paint.
Surface PVA such as - [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] I had some of this sent over from UK and used it on external render of house walls then painted over, stops the paint being sucked into the render

There is a Bulgarian version which comes in small pink bottles, I have an empty one somewhere will dig it out and post name later
Just suggestions from me others may have other alternatives

Bill

Thanks for the pics...it appears to me that the stones were left too close to the surface and you didn't float finish the job before leaving it all to dry properly. Let me explain further...

When forming up and creating a slab, I use a sand and stone mix similar to what I see in the photos...maybe even a bit more stone content. I make the mix fairly wet, but not sloppy, and then lay it in place about 1.5cms too thick to allow for the slump effect (settling). Allow it to sit for about five minutes or so, then you can go over the new surface with a smooth steel floating trowel and slap down any stones which are visible...they will disappear into the mix and a lot of watery concrete will come to the top...that sloppy stuff can be smoothed off, just like ironing a shirt. Because I tend to do my concreting in sections, the sloppy stuff gets moved off into the next section to be done and the next lot of concrete mix just gets poured over it when you're ready to that section. Once you have the treated surface looking the way it should...ie. no visble stones or imperfections, make yourself a cuppa and relax for 20 - 30 mins.
The last part is to smooth off the surface properly...I use the same steel floating trowel, but some folk use a much bigger one...the size isn't important. Pretend you are really ironing something important and go over the whole surface, leaving no marks behind...if it still seems to be a bit wet, have another cuppa. Done right, the whole surface will be super smooth and even...the secret is to let it dry (cure) slowly. I cover my jobs with plastic sheeting as it keeps the moisture in for quite a long time. It takes about 72 hrs for the job to dry properly and reach its maximum strength....can be longer, depending on the thickness.

If you want to experiment with this method or a mix using additives like colour or sealing stuff, why not make up couple of wooden frames (about garden path slab size) and sit them on a sandy bed out of the way of foot traffic. Make up a wheelbarrow mix of concrete in the usual way...use about half the mix in one of the frames and finish it off as I described above. With the remainder of the mix in your barrow, add the correct dosage of sealant and then make another slab or two, until it's all gone. Finish that slab the same way....you will then have 2 or 3 useful slabs to place around the garden, and you will have discovered which method works best for you.

Once you have settled on the desired method, remove all the flaky surface of the current slab (rotary wire wheel on an angle grinder will work very well) and once it's completely clean you make up your chosen mix and apply straight over the newly cleaned surface. Just make sure the old surface is quite damp and that you make the new layer about an inch thick.

I've done this many times over the last 11 years....about 400 sq metres, all in smallish increments and as Berni would testify, it looks good and has stood the test of time.

Long winded, I know, but I hope it helps you.

Thanks guys will have a word with himself and see which option to go for.

Get himself out again in the morning and have another go

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  will do when the weather gets better, it is bucketing it down out there now, mind you the snow has almost gone do we can't have everything eh!

 I replace the link you posted with the photo Willow.  Made me smile

OK guys that't it, enough is enough after much arguing and sulking etc etc I have decided to give in and buy a sit on mower for hubby.

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Dougie made a body for the old cart,  I just need to decide on how to decorate it now.  Will undercoat first than use a  gloss.  Not sure if I want to decoupage it or try my hand at painting, I am not good at painting but lines, spots and squiggles will be ok  keep it simple.  Will try both and decoupage and paint with different colour washable paints and if I don't like it, easy to wash off, if I do than I can varnish.  Getting excited about it now just need the weather to change.  We have snow tonight but I don't think it will last.

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All you need now is a donkey and go through the village . I think you could be well classed as a local. I love it and