First topic message reminder :

Hi,
I was wondering what the cause and how to fix the problem of the tingle feeling you get from inside the dish washer and washing machine.The house has all new wiring.I am in the dobrich area.


Regards Robert
ps first post and new to the site nice to meet you all...

I think so long as its safe and they know what they are doing and pocess the relevant qualifications thats all anyone can ask for its the with whoever you have work for you its a case of suck it and see even when recommended it can still go wrong so I believe that the only way to know is to learn as much as you can about the trades man and their work and then take the plunge and hope that your also one of the lucky ones, I know that in the uk its a lot harder for cowboys to get away with anything but unfortunately these cowboys now live in Bulgaria and proclaim to know what they are doing at your expense.

When I was teaching Electrical Engineers there was always an element of practical skills in the training. But as some people say you also need on the job training as well. When I started out I had a 5 year apprenticeship with an extra 2 years added if I wanted to go further in the trade. The paper work side was an extra and I was sent on day release buy my firm.

So if you are a properly trained Electrical person you would have had on the job training as well as the paper certs as well. In fact a person who did not have the paper work was known as an Electricians mate and then there used to be the rating system after qualifications, e.g. Approved Electrician , Electrical Technician and so on. The more qualifications you got the higher the pay.

But the thing to remember here is that it was all done in conjunction with on the job training.

How it works in BG I do not know.

But going back to the original thread. If in doubt don't is the buzz phrase. Don't touch what you know nothing about. Just to recap what does DIY stand for.

Don't Injure Yourself

Tony

tonyb60 wrote:

When I started out I had a 5 year apprenticeship with an extra 2 years added if I wanted to go further in the trade. The paper work side was an extra and I was sent on day release buy my firm.

I also had a five year apprenticeship with 'day release' by the company I was working for. This basically meant I did one day a week at college (paid for by the firm), two evenings a week at college (no pay), for five years. Usually had to work Saturday's due to the fact I'd taken a day off through the week (but this was overtime and we could eat bacon butties on the job).

Not that I know bugger all about this stuff, I can hardly wire a plug ... my apprenticeship was as a hot-metal compositor ... though fortunately we soon moved to more modern methods of getting ink on paper! [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

For me it was something called block release which meant I spent 3 months at college doing theory and practical and 3 months on the tools in industry so in all it was 6 months of theory and 6 months of practical each year I did this for 3 and half years so I learned the practical and the theory at the same time which worked very well and for me I learned so much quicker because I was doing all that was required to learn, you can imagine doing 3 months at college and then 3 months on the tools and so on its the only way to learn if you thrown into college for 3 years or whatever period your not going to be much good in my opinion you need to learn both theory and practice at the same time .

I suspect the problems with Bulgarian installations are more down to lack of proper regulation, codes of practice etc than poor workmanship. They perhaps don't have an equivalent to our IEE.

There is a Bulgarian electrician on the forum so maybe someone could ask him?? just a thought

I think as you are an experienced sparks and have probably meet quite a few of the people i am talking about as i stated and agreed ;
use a qualified person and some one who shows you the necessary paper work, but as you agreed some of these trades people have not been educated in lateral thinking and can do more damage than good like you said if they have a back ground and or you can see there work it helps you can get any think of the net these days do you leg work and check its your hard earn money.

Thanks Gimp
Hey people. Problem in Bulgaria is said Bulgaria. I understand your problems but sitting behind a computer I can't help you. So I have e-mail, I'm a qualified and I am ready to assist you to remove those pesky and hazardous problems. Please email me. Need to visit you and then I can do many things to make your propertis more safer.
Regards
Peter G

Hi Peter nice to see you here, I think whats being asked here apart from the earthing problem is what kind of qualifications do Bulgarian electricians have? and how long do they study for ? and finally is there a register where anyone can check if a person is qualified or not? and if not how do you know ????

Hi Sallyann
Nice to see you too. Thanks for the good question.
First I dont know for any register where anyone can check if a person is qualified or not.
Second we have a "
удостоверение за придобита квалификационна група по безопастност при работа по електрически уредби и мрежи до и над 1000V"
in english about "
certificate of qualification group for safety when working on electrical devices and networks to and more than 1000V"
. This certificate should be have any technician who deals with wiring.
I should be sent you a copy of my certificate later, to view what is this document.
About "
how long do they study for"
I apply link to 1 translated site
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... Fcid%3D157
That is minimal hours to be electrician.
I hope that information is helpful for you.
Regards
Peter G

Hi Peter,
A lot of the discussion in this thread concerns earth protection, something considered very important in UK. I pointed out that most cable I've seen in Bulgaria is only 2 core so I would guess it is for installations that don't have a separate protective conductor. Is this accepted practice or should sockets (for example) always be earthed? Here's a basic description of UK sockets wiring for comparison:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

Hi fido,
Most of wiring houses in Bulgaria is wired before 2004y.
In 2004 year in BG like in UK "
the 17th edition"
is lead "
НАРЕДБА №3 ЗА УСТРОЙСТВОТО НА ЕЛЕКТРИЧЕСКИТЕ УРЕДБИ И ЕЛЕКТРОПРОВОДНИТЕ ЛИНИИ"
see [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... /41708.htm "
част 7- глава 38"

see too [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... nite_linii "
част 1 - глава 7"
.
Just one more link, see [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ... mit=Search
OK that's it the laws in force. About the older instalations, yes it’s have two wire and that is not in contrary to laws in force.
That is our older method of wiring.
TN-C-S system

That is new International Standard IES – 60364 (and BDS HD 60364)
TN-S system


I hope this information was useful for you
Peter G

I think if you are to put this information on here it is too advanced for the DIY type person. But now you have it must also be said that in the UK we use a TNS System. The full description is the Earth (T= Terra) and the Neutral are separate.

This term TNS is also commonly known as The Normal System

TNCS is mainly used for what was known as the HSOS or in plain English House Service Overhead System. In the villages in BG this type of supply is the normal.

Again advice.

What does DIY stand for.

DON"
T INJURE YOURSELF

I'm still not sure what happens at individual sockets. With the TNCS system you can have an earth electrode into the soil outside the building and wire that to the socket earth terminals, metal pipework etc. I suspect there was no such earth wire going to the dishwasher socket of the original poster. I further suspect that the electrician who came to make it "
safe"
just wired a link between the earth and neutral terminals. Obviously this would only work if the plug can only go in one way round. If it is a German style Schuko CEE7/4 socket you would be making the appliance very dangerous because you could plug it in either way, one way resulting in a live cabinet!

I would say an earth spike is the order of the day? but you could if your do a complete rewire take it to you supply board and from the use a 3 wire system?