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I hate liars. It seems it is endemic nowadays, so much so, that people lie without realising it! Very often during conversation some very ordinary comments are found out to be untrue because as the saying goes: 'you have to have a good memory to be a liar'. I don't usually mention that the original story was false because I can't stand the embarrasment of listening to people wriggle out of it. Life is normally too short to bother about it anyway but it leads on to all kinds of other bigger lies which occur in life especially in property buying in Bulgaria. Need I say more? So many instances which could also be interpreted as 'corruption' in extreme situations. However, my grouse is that it seems now that the whole world lies about everything except me! I am quite proud of that. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

:Good post:Good for you and you deserve loads of karmas for that. This flags up once more how destructive lying is at any age. The amazing thing is that the liars seem so often to be believed against all the evidence of how good the victims are. Its all very well telling people to ignore lying and gossip because it will eventually stop. Wrong - it doesn't because what people don't know because of the ignoring they make up even worse because liars are green with envy, jealousy and insecurity.

Thanks for that oldun.
It's good to share experiences in life and as I said we could write a book......maybe someday!
Mum-in-law used to tell our foster kids : tell the truth and shame the devil. Let's hope they have taken that on board because I believe what goes round comes round.
Anyway enjoying our retirement and should be in Bulgaria sometime this month.......peace, we hope!

oldun wrote:

Its all very well telling people to ignore lying and gossip because it will eventually stop. Wrong - it doesn't because what people don't know because of the ignoring they make up even worse because liars are green with envy, jealousy and insecurity.

Oldun: My lovely, than my question would be;
why bother with those people, you will never win hence I would said don't give them the time of day, just move on and forget them.

Pugs: Excellent post, as Oldun said and Karma increased so well don!! There are some really good points I am sure none of us considered about adopting.

Oddy

Thanks Oddy,
What really sticks in our guts is that once these kids have been found out lying they are not held to account so what kind of adults will they become? Probably compulsive liars but they won't get any good from it and as you say they are best left alone. Give them a wide berth that's what I say. At least you can prosecute the thief!
Pugs

I think that this is something else to take into account when living in a small village somewhere in Bulgaria. People are just there and can be seen and cause trouble even when being ignored. Bulgarian villages are not the same as living in a large village or town. There are some things that happen abroad, which, whilst happening in Britain, are much more upsetting and in your face than one might think. There have been people posting on this forum who have left because of the existance of some of these lying folk.

These sort of people aren't worth the time of day and to tell a blatant lie about anyone is unforgiveable so they are best ignored and left to their own devices. Let them stew in their own juice I say. Choose friends carefully because you will go through life, meet plenty of acquaintances but very few friends!
Pugs

A couple of trusted friends are enough, the rest are just acquaintances as we pass through life and to be kept at a distance. Trouble is if you are a natural talker and friendly person, its easy to tell things that are best kept to oneself!
I believe too, that its best to ignore the liars but sometimes these people are so unhappy in their own lives that they go on to seek to undermine others seemingly more fortunate. This is where life can become intolerable as someone on this forum knows very well. Some deep-seated liars can be very convincing to others and also very difficult to stop because they are clever enough to cover their tracks. If challenged it would be a 'who, what, me???' kind of reply. These people then come under the bullying category which has been covered elsewhere on the forum and can be 'Googled' about the kind of personalities that do this.
Of course, there are the less harmful folk who are just 'Billy Liars' who live in their own cloud cuckoo land and can be taken with a pinch of salt. Once its been established that this is who they are its easy to just go with the flow, smile and nod and move on.

All that's quite true oldun but waht you have to do is rise above these people and don't give them the time of day.
Fortunately where we are living now we know a lot of really nice people and we have a few good friends but if any of them lied about anything to do with us then they would get the sharp end of our toungue and completely ignored thereafter.
We know only too well what lies can do to a person's life. We have supported many carer friends who have gone through horrific times all because of a lie but they have fought back and come out vindicated.
My advice to anyone would be to dump the liars, move on and be happy with a few decent friends and keep your own counsel.
Pugs ::

There are many reasons why most people tell lies. Some of the most popular include;
avoiding liability, trying to be acknowledged, creating importance, financial gain and the usual, avoiding hurting someone’s feelings. What is very attention-grabbing is that all these reasons are usually linked to lacking of self confidence and low self worth issues? The most Human actions are driven by pain and pleasure. The average person associates' pain to being truthful, and pleasure to avoiding the alleged issues of being truthful. This usually starts in early life when a parent unconsciously punishes a youngster for telling the who then begins associating pain to honesty, couple that to the reality that most parents lie for their children, to their children and in front of their family, This reinforces that lying is alright.

How true Stephen, as I said earlier we have just retired after fostering for thirty years and you get two types of liars the habitual and the compulsive liar. The problem with the kids in care over here anyway is that they do get away with lying and thieving and not taken to account for their actions. Foster carer's hands are tied, you can't even stop pocket money, you can but double has to be given the following week. You are not allowed to ground them or send them to bed early. You are allowed to remove a favourite toy etc for a short length of time and the thieves! well they would get sent on a holiday as the social workers reckoned it would do them good. So what can you do? Nothing is the answer because you can talk to some of these liars and thieves until you are blue in the face. Even the police get a lot of verbal abuse from them and have to stand and take it! What amuses me is when they are older and in trouble they always blame their past life instead of trying to improve themselves and some end up on the Jeremy Kyle show! Don't get me wrong I am talking about the liars and thieves, there are loads of great kids out there and we have been fortunate to accomodate lots of really good kids and some still keep in touch and have done well in life.
We think that a lot of behavioural problems are in the genes and we have witnessed this.
Mind you it wouldn't do if we were all perfect I suppose.
Good post Stephen,
Pugs

So many good replies. I am obviously 'old school' when children were punished for lying and wrong-doing. If a policeman found you stealing an apple off a tree you were warned and if you told your parents, they would punish too. Not allowed nowadays with children's rights. There is a fine line between legitimate punishment and abuse but it seems the pendulum has definitely swung too far the wrong way.
Having been brought up never to lie its hard to understand the lying mentality of today's lying especially in some adults who have held executive jobs and not had too hard a life. A lot of today's problems are down to bad parenting, or should we say, parents not understanding the importance of being a parent and guiding a child from an early age. Obviously if the parents are liars themselves and lead some kind of criminal life which means lying is endemic, the children will follow suit. Whether it is actually in the genes is open to argument the same as alcoholism.
Really I am replying a lot on this subject because I am trying to understand why people do it especially in otherwise sociable situations. I am very interested in human nature and understanding the whys and wherefores of personality, helps to deal with it. None of us is perfect as has been said and I am well aware of my faults (as might be seen by others!) and do try to curb any excesses and I just wish others could use a little tolerance and understanding especially in Bulgaria where most of us have a lot of time to think!

Something to think about. Everything we are doing and say matters. It affects each one of the 50 trillion cells that build up your whole body. Think about that it is a medical fact the strain causes health problems, disease and can be potentially fatal. It is Psychological fact that lying causes stress, add this atogether, and you have “Truth”.

:Thank you:Oh Andy, I so agree. Some on the forum might have read that my partner had a very serious illness back at Christmas. He could have died. I am absolutely convinced that what you have said was partly the cause. Doctors have thought, though not clinically proved, that stress and internalising worries, can acerbate illness. This is why ignoring isn't the sole answer because when living in an isolated place there is no way to talk with friends and family so people internalise the worry which causes illness. Sometimes this emerges in bad headaches or stomach upsets and food cannot be digested properly.
Anyway, we could be going off-topic here so we will stick to the lying theme. However, this is where everything we talk about interacts with everything else and just might be helping someone facing interaction difficulties in Bulgaria. Its not just about interacting and integrating with Bulgarians (which can be easier sometimes due to lack of chat!) but interaction with fellow Brits. Basically none of us have any history so its back to square one and it takes a while to build trust and realise whether someone is truthful or just telling a pack of lies.

Hello oldun, how right Andy is and I feel so sad for you and your husband and glad he is now well. I don't know what your experience at the hand of liars has been but by the sound of things you have been really hurt. An habitual liar has learned by habit, a compulsive liar is just a born liar and wouldn't know the truth if it hit them in the face. All children shoud be taught at an early age not to lie, trouble nowadays is that it's kids having kids.
Worry and stress can bring on an illness or speed one up, it can also age you and I am the living proof of that, and I thought kids kept you young ..........don't believe it!
Some people tell what we called 'little white lies' eg if you wanted a day off work phone and tell them you are ill. We were taught not to do that either as mum-in-law always said mocking is catching, how true that is.
Anyway oldun ditch the liars and perhaps when we are settled over in Bulgaria we can meet up at some point and we promise you we are not liars. If we couldn't do you any good we certainly wouldn't do you any harm. As Rabbie Burns said 'Oh for God the power to gie us to see ourselves as others see us'.
You take care,
Pugs

:Thank you:For that Pugwash. No need to go into specifics and we have survived and continue to ignore but its very hard when we have no idea what we have done. Its the lies that have been spread that really hurts and yet no-one has confronted us and I certainly have no intention of showing that I am upset. I'm afraid the internet has a lot to answer for!
Believe in Karma because what goes around does eventually come around and the truth will out. Thanks too for reminding me of that quote.