First topic message reminder :

Over the past year I have been fascinated by the price of things that are up for sale. People ask a price at the beginning which when the article is not sold, they drop, which is a sensible thing to do if you wish to sell something if the asking price is not paid in the beginning. Most people always ask what they would like at the beginning then are prepared to negotiate. Items that are used always have had a re sale value, take cars depreciation set at a % if in good condition etc, when we buy an expensive item such as a car most people surely look at whether that model etc holds its value.
Property, in Bulgaria at the moment the drop in asking prices for re sales in just unbelievable, some even being sold at half what the person paid in the beginning, I am not just talking apartments in the coastal resorts but it is now evident in village properties. I am only talking Bulgaria, which leads to me to my questions

1. Do you think that people are doing this because they are selling up and just want to get something for there property and are prepared to take a loss

2. Or that they bought items and property thinking that they would make big profits when selling these in Bulgaria, and property would be worth a lot more in a few years, so now are just trying to off load items even at a loss

3. Or are second hand items now worth nothing,

Just interested in what other people think

Pavingslabsbg wrote:

We have heard a lot of people say they bought thinking they were going to make a profit in 5 years,which of course was never going to happen and probably won't happen for the next 20-30 years.There have also been a lot of people living off the sale of there UK house and of course the money doesn't last for ever,especially now prices of day to day things are increasing.Cars etc,were very expensive when we arrived here,so maybe people have realised they just have to get some money in a very saturated market.

Excellent reply and I completely agree with every word you have said :Clap:well done

Yes excellent reply. Capital doesn't last forever and some people probably thought they could start some kind of business. There are as many rules and regulations about this in Bulgaria as there are in Britain and also the business largely depends on other expats' support. Here lies another problem because if there is ever a falling out, the gossip will go around and business will drop off. Unfortunately, the old green eye comes into play. Thus many businesses have gone by the wayside.
I honestly think that unless you have some kind of income, like a pension or rental from UK, it is foolhardy to suppose that the goose's golden egg won't crack. Its probably the main reason why people have to drop prices on their properties and accept what they can in order to move on or go back to Britain.
I would also like to mention that I think many people spend far too much on renovations - far beyond what they can actually afford and making the price too high to sell. Big extensions and several bedrooms plus pool for expected guests who will probably never come more than once, is unnecessary. Renovate for yourself and not for others in order to stay within budget and not just to impress.
Just my humble opinion of course, but getting old and thinking you deserve the best because you have worked hard all your life is a recipe for disaster. Most people work hard and there is nothing written that says at the end of it all you will be rich and comfortable. Better to stay careful and do the maths.

oldun wrote:

Yes excellent reply. Capital doesn't last forever and some people probably thought they could start some kind of business. There are as many rules and regulations about this in Bulgaria as there are in Britain and also the business largely depends on other expats' support. Here lies another problem because if there is ever a falling out, the gossip will go around and business will drop off. Unfortunately, the old green eye comes into play. Thus many businesses have gone by the wayside.
I honestly think that unless you have some kind of income, like a pension or rental from UK, it is foolhardy to suppose that the goose's golden egg won't crack. Its probably the main reason why people have to drop prices on their properties and accept what they can in order to move on or go back to Britain.
I would also like to mention that I think many people spend far too much on renovations - far beyond what they can actually afford and making the price too high to sell. Big extensions and several bedrooms plus pool for expected guests who will probably never come more than once, is unnecessary. Renovate for yourself and not for others in order to stay within budget and not just to impress.
Just my humble opinion of course, but getting old and thinking you deserve the best because you have worked hard all your life is a recipe for disaster. Most people work hard and there is nothing written that says at the end of it all you will be rich and comfortable. Better to stay careful and do the maths.

Well put and wise advice to anyone considering the move.Please think very carefully!We have been lucky and have a business and have at times found work on the land the same as the locals.Our UK house is rented out,it covers the mortgage and is a safety net.We decided to convert 1 room in our property,as in Rome and all that!It's cosy in the winter and we live outside in the summer.

Thank you Pavingslabs - nice to know there is one person who agrees with me, not many do. Very refreshing.

I always read what you write oldun and its always very refreshing and to the point without anything in the way of the truth and yes there are those who don't like it but its thanks to people like you that make life in Bulgaria so much easier to understand I only wish others would do their homework first or at least visit the country and get a true picture and then if they are happy most importantly check out the funds? will they last? and what if they don't?

oldun wrote:

Thank you Pavingslabs - nice to know there is one person who agrees with me, not many do. Very refreshing.

I think there'll be far more than one - I make two at least

Ok, I know that this is going a bit off topic but it is a question that I need to ask. There has been mention of people who sell up in the uk and move over relying on their capital to survive. Our house over there is just about renovated, not much left to spend and will all be done before we get there. If we were to invest say £120,000 in Bg bank accounts could we live an average, not over the top life off the interest?

citman. wrote:

Ok, I know that this is going a bit off topic but it is a question that I need to ask. There has been mention of people who sell up in the uk and move over relying on their capital to survive. Our house over there is just about renovated, not much left to spend and will all be done before we get there. If we were to invest say £120,000 in Bg bank accounts could we live an average, not over the top life off the interest?

Depends on how long you stay alive.

Thanks for your intelligent and witty response. I am sure that it will help greatly with our plans. I am sure that it was the best answer that you were capable of putting together and took a great deal of consideration and thought Coriolanus or may I just call you Anus for short?

citman. wrote:

Ok, I know that this is going a bit off topic but it is a question that I need to ask. There has been mention of people who sell up in the uk and move over relying on their capital to survive. Our house over there is just about renovated, not much left to spend and will all be done before we get there. If we were to invest say £120,000 in Bg bank accounts could we live an average, not over the top life off the interest?

I hate to state the obvious but a lot depends on your standard of living which we all know is different from one to another £120,000 is about of money in Bg which is about 250,000 leva, Also this will depend on your age and weather you intend to try and make a living in Bg or if you have a pension? Another thing to consider is where your going to live? because this can also effect the cost of living, there are so many different combinations of questions that it would be very hard for anyone to be able to accurately tell you and if anyone did ? it would only be a wild guess. Hope this helps you a little but I fear I haven't given you much.

Very well put Carmen I don't think anyone could answer such a question without knowing all the possible facts.

Thanks for that Carmen. To clarify things a little we will both be mid to late forties, kids will have left us behind. Living near Burgas, no pensions yet, but wife will try to obtain work within education after a couple of years when our language skills are better developed. Not wanting an extravagant lifestyle, one car, broadband internet and the occasional night out. Please ask any other questions that you feel may help you assist.

Well Citman I think this is very much on topic because you are possibly just the type of people who I worry about and who have already come unstuck. Yes, that does seem a significant amount of cash to invest. However, my first thought is that you are entirely at the mercy of the banks and exchange rates. The pound to lev is very low at the moment and unlikely to reach the dizzy heights of almost 3levs to the pound when we first came. We, like all other Brits, are losing about 30% of income. However, like others living here permanently, I have savings accounts which are giving much better interest than British banks especially if you look around.
I am not sure if it would be possible to teach in Bulgaria however good your Bulgarian is, unless it is in a private school or language school. Lots of research to do here.
Then we come to the vexed problem of lifestyle. If, like us, you do not go out of your village much and lead an almost monastic life with no car and bare essentials, then you could possibly live to 100 on that amount of savings. However, in my experience of Brits, people tend to socialise out of the village once the honeymoon period is over and once this happens money is easily spent, especially if you get into the expat scene and start buying imported goods from carboots etc.
When I hear the magic words ' we want to live simply' that is different to different people. My 'simply' is very different to others who tell me they have little money!!!!
Finally, you really have to think about what you will be doing in Bulgaria. You are not pensioners like me, so you will need more to do. A few hours in the garden is as much as I can manage and then I sit in it and read a book. When I was in my 50s or even 60s I would not be happy to do so little. You can go the self-sufficiency route or rear animals but this isn't actually as free as you might think until you get lots of help from your neighbours who know all about keeping seeds from the last crop etc and killing their own beasts.
Well, I could go on Citman and this is not to criticize or condemn those who are living, like you, on savings, but be aware that people like yourselves are often the very ones who are having to sell below cost price because the dream has become a nightmare which they hadn't expected.
At the end of the day, your question is unanswerable because who knows what nature or governments can do to quash our dreams?
But from someone who is happy and living on far less than you will have, very good luck to you. I wish you and everyone else with the dream good luck, good health and a long and happy life in Bulgaria.

Thanks Oldun for an intelligent and well thought out response. I know that everyone has different ideas about a quiet life and the idea of doing the expat scene does not appeal much. I wonder if what I should have asked was how much do people spend on an average year without an excessive lifestyle and also what rates of interest are available in savings accounts over there?
I think I will have plenty to do for the first year or two just getting our place how we will want it, it's the wife who will probably get bored first.

Quick reply Citman. Two of us live on my BASIC UK pension. I have a current account and 3 savings accounts -3 are called growing interest accounts and one ordinary savings that I can take out any time up to 3,000levs without paying commission. However, all are in levas which might be a drawback in the future. Who knows? You can have a euro account but at less interest. Still much better than in Britain AT THE MOMENT. My bank told me that the growing interest accounts were started with 10% final interest because the bank wanted to get a lot of money invested! Its already not giving what was promised as the quarterly returns have dropped although you still get 10% final and you can put in or take out quarterly. Its all above my head so you need to ask around to find more info. All I can say is, that I am happy.
I would say 1,000levs a month is our spend which includes bills AT THE MOMENT and we have wood burning central heating. However, prices and cost of living is rising here as everywhere else and I do find myself saying 'How much??' even in the veg bazaars. Electric in Bulgaria is pro rata very expensive.
March is the expensive month when taxes have to be paid and re-registration financial reports etc etc etc. I noticed that our rubbish tax is higher than the house tax. My accountant said it is to comply with EU rules for rubbish disposal. Eventually house taxes will rise accordingly. I asked how the villagers would cope then and he shrugged and told me that will be a big problem for them. Governments never worry about the little people the world over.
My advice from an Oldie, is to keep some money in a British bank or an offshore account as well as having Bulgarian accounts just in case. Personally, I would still trust sterling over any other currency but this is only my opinion! I would never give up a British bank account even though I feel almost (not quite) very Bulgarian.