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PostSubject: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 26, 2011 2:12 pm

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The Ten Commandments

We live in amazingly dynamic times. Everybody seems in a dreadful hurry to meet tight schedules and there is this floating anxiety of missing one of thousands of luring opportunities. Big companies race to offer the latest generation of cell phones, or a portable computer in the vogue. TV commercials after the news will let you know about the latest model of the most smashing car with countless extras. The worldwide web comes up with great bargains for trips to a dozen most exotic destinations. Is it possible to resist the temptations? All the more so that present-day icons – Hollywood actors and musicians – maintain lifestyles bathing in glamour and glory.

In the meantime, while watching the news we tend to be little impressed by reports that innocent people died somewhere on the planet. As Easter approaches we ought to take a deeper and closer look at ourselves and think about intransigent values such as love, compassion and friendship. To what extent is the message laid out in the Ten Commandments relevant today? To what extent do Bulgarians follow them? More from father Vasil Vasilev from the Three Saints Church in the town of Shumen, North eastern Bulgaria, and in interviews with residents of the city of Sofia.

“Our century is a time of high technologies”, the young priest says. “We live dynamic lives and amid the sea of information, problems and various emotions, man is lost for the right direction – he loses his identity as he wrestles with daily hardships and in the battle for survival. What are the moral values and foundations today? Unfortunately, for a man to prosper he should become a hypocrite, swindler, villain or whatnot revealing the dark aspects of his personality. The Ten Commandments were given by God Jehovah to prophet Moses and they will remain relevant for human beings till the end of this world. The commandments are religious and moral imperatives;
they draw up a comprehensive credo that man has been called to carry out so as to become part of a better society. They have been incorporated in the Holy Bible. In the New Testament Jesus Christ unites all Ten Commandments into two. He says: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind”, and also, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself’. This is the quintessence of the Decalogue – there is love for God in it – God as Creator of everything visible and invisible, and whom we should respect and fear. Secondly, we should love our fellows. This explains why there are no inferior commandments, and we cannot say that any of them is more relevant or less relevant. They are all equally important and equally necessary.”

Do Bulgarians know the Ten Commandments, and to what extent do they tend to abide by them?

“Unfortunately, religious instruction is not taught in Bulgarian schools, so Bulgarians do not know their faith well, and the Ten Commandments are not the moral basis of present-day families”, Father Vasil admits. “For this reason our society is not fully democratic. We can see lawlessness everywhere and impunity, meaning our society is not democratic;
it is rather demonocratic – run by demons ruling human emotions and vices. Let us hope that the voice of our church will be heard so that the young people can know their faith better – by being taught Orthodox Christianity in Bulgarian schools. It is Faith that saves humans;
the Faith from the Holy Gospel;
given by Jesus Christ. Young people are eager to learn but they are confused;
very intelligent, very bright but unfortunately soulless.”

“You shall not murder”, “You shall not lie”, “You shall not steal”, “You shall not commit adultery” are the most popular of the Commandments among Bulgarians. Alexandra, 22, says however, that these spiritual values have to a great extent lost their power and importance. “Of course, I try – and maybe I succeed in being good with my family and friends and with the people who deserve good”, she added. More from some residents of Sofia.

“I think they are eternal. It is a different matter that times have changed – and people too, so it has become quite a challenge to abide by the Ten Commandments that are in fact the moral code of every human being”, Mariana Angelova, who is retired, said. “Well, there are many people who practice forgiveness, love and compassion. The Ten Commandments tell us: ‘You shall not kill’, ‘You shall not steal’, ‘You shall not covet’. What I try to observe is good will and good intentions. I am not one of those who can forgive easily though it is now the period of the Great Lent.”

“I think that Bulgarians are not very faithful Christians”, Mrs. Djorova says. “Yes, some go to church to light candles. I am always ready to help others. I do not like stealing or lying. However I cannot claim I am a believer, because faith is something I cannot understand. Still, I think I behave with dignity as I communicate with people.”

Tanya Bencheva who studies to become a social worker believes that people who try hard to live pure and noble lives in fact honour the Ten Commandments.

“It is very important not to lie. I think it is also important to love your fellow as you love yourself. The commandment ‘You shall have no other Gods before me’ means that we should be Christians. I have heard some say that faith in God is a good excuse for the weakness of an individual but this is wrong. I think superstition is an excuse for the lack of faith. If you believe that something bad could happen to you, you do not have faith in God, in that He does protect you.”

“The so-called Decalogue, or the Ten Commandments, is valid today. Still very few people make efforts to stick to this code”, explains Georgi who is retired. “Neither of the Ten Commandments is of smaller value, because the whole Christian moral code is laid out in their totality. Whoever chooses to observe it, he is a moral person. These are fundamental values that should be observed by every human being.”
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed May 11, 2011 6:49 pm

fruitlover wrote:
That's a shame, so much for Human Freedom! Are you also forbidden to own a Bible?
yep...
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2011 11:38 am

Mechta - How about the non-religious self development books, are you allowed those? I find them in charity shops or on eBay, some I read first from the library and then buy if I want to refer to them often. My daughter lent me Katie Byron's "
Loving What Is"
and this is a remarkable book, well worth a read by anyone. Another I was lent and then bought is Louise L Hayes "
You can heal your life"
, both of these I was borrowing for someone else, but read them first of course and found them full of wisdom and enormously helpful even though I'd thought I was perfectly fine and didn't need any assistance! Neither of these books speak of religion as such so should be safe for you, but the principles in them are in line with the same Eternal Truth that religions try to embrace. Hope this helps.
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu May 12, 2011 7:57 pm

fruitlover wrote:
Mechta - How about the non-religious self development books, are you allowed those? I find them in charity shops or on eBay, some I read first from the library and then buy if I want to refer to them often. My daughter lent me Katie Byron's "
Loving What Is"
and this is a remarkable book, well worth a read by anyone. Another I was lent and then bought is Louise L Hayes "
You can heal your life"
, both of these I was borrowing for someone else, but read them first of course and found them full of wisdom and enormously helpful even though I'd thought I was perfectly fine and didn't need any assistance! Neither of these books speak of religion as such so should be safe for you, but the principles in them are in line with the same Eternal Truth that religions try to embrace. Hope this helps.

hmmm.... i'll consider it.
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu May 26, 2011 11:03 am

I've been reading this with great interest and thought I would do a little research so I half know what I'm talking about? before I start, I must point out that there are two different sets of the ten commandments – the Protestant interpretation and the Catholic interpretation.

The protestant commandments are:
1.Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
and showing mercy unto thousand of them that love me and keep my commandments.
3.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;
for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4.Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord make heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5.Honour thy father and thy mother: that their days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
6.Thou shalt not kill.
7.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8.Thou shalt not steal.
9.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any think that is thy neighbour’s.

The ten catholic commandments are:
1.I am the Lord thy God;
thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
2.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3.Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
4.Honour thy father and thy mother.
5.Thou shalt not kill.
6.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7.Thou shalt not steal.
8.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
9.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours’ goods.

But in looking at whether they are relevant today, we need to look at the context they were written in. Let’s go through the commandments individually.
For instance, the first commandment’s meaning is actually very different to what you take it to be. It does not say ‘worship no other gods’ because, at the time of the writing of the commandments, the Jews were not Polygamous. They believed in many gods, It wasn’t until much later that they came to realise there was only 1 God. So this commandment is not really relevant?

The second commandment differs. The Catholics have abolished this commandment, possibly because of the amount of images used in their churches. Interpretation differs, and some say it merely means no images of the aforementioned ‘other gods’. This commandment, though, however it is interpreted, is still relevant for today, as it’s a direct instruction on how to worship.

Taking the name of the Lord in vein is not, despite what people thinking things like ‘god damn’. It stems from a Hebrew belief, now changed in both Judaism and Christianity, that saying God’s name would call God. So it’s the equivalent of ‘do not call me for no real purpose’. As beliefs have so radically changed, this is no longer relevant.
Keeping the Sabbath holy is an instruction about how to live, saying ‘keep one day aside for thought and contemplation’. This still has relevance in the modern world, although we constantly find it harder to carry out.

The commandment ‘honour thy father and mother’ is usually seen as a relevant one – however, it’s meaning is very different to what we take it to be. In Hebrew society, a man was required to support and protect his ageing parents. This rule shows the insecurity of families in ancient times, and also the sexism – this rule could not apply to women, as they were automatically their husband’s ‘property’ and had to look after his parents – meaning the rules were written entirely for men.

The commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’ is relevant in any society. But its meaning is again different to what we expect. It is better translated as ‘thou shalt not commit unlawful murder’. Killing of innocents in wartime, for instance, was actively encouraged in the bible – so it also says nothing is wrong with suicide. This commandment is still relevant – but only when properly translated.

Thou shalt not steal is relatively simple, and still relative for today. No comment needed. The same can be said for the commandment on adultery.

On the commandment (or two commandments, depending on interpretation) on coveting/jealousy, the commandment itself is still relevant, but is riddled with prejudice – it seems to accept, for instance, that slavery is the norm.

In my opinion, these commandments are mainly still relevant for today, but only if properly translated, and looked at carefully, so that we follow the actual commandments and not just the ‘letter of the law’ (such as ultra-orthodox Jews getting a non-Jew to light a fire for them on the Sabbath). However, the laws are very clearly made in an entirely different society, and this must be taken into account.
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu May 26, 2011 12:32 pm

I'm glad this thread's not dead, let's not forget to applaud Oldun for starting it!

When pondering on what's relevant today and what's not, let's remember that this was the Old Testament voice of Jehovah who, for Christians, sent his Son to bring the new way of living which was no longer based on revenge but on forgiveness, hence the New Testament. Christ is not a jealous God.

We are told that Christ entered Jesus of Nazareth in his 30th year. To make this a little easier to grasp, we can realise that God, who is so much more than Man, could in no way completely be contained in a mortal Human body and soul, therefore he would have to separate off the essence of himself that was to become Jesus Christ. This is how we can understand the term 'Son'.

Every living thing is a Being and the word being is a verb, (be-ING) so it denotes something that is happening, not a completed work. God, as the mightiest Being we can comprehend (well we can't but I mean we can comprehend that such a being exists and created us) is also a living changing entity, evolving.

Even for members of the Jewish Faith it makes sense that God's consciousness evolves, therefore so does the Truth. Not everything that was true for a certain age in the past is true today, some of it has changed. If there's one thing we all can see it's that nothing stays the same, everything changes. I remember once on the program Horison hearing Science defined as "
The art of disproving what we believed yesterday"
which seems to sum it up beautifully!

I seem to recall there was (or is) a computer game that allows the player to be a creator who creates a race of people or whatever, with rules and laws but these have to be changed as the people evolve because what the creator first expected to work, doesn't now. I think we would be taking the Lord's name in vain if we equated this game to God's Creation, but we can realise that the principle of it does illustrate a significant truth which is true for every religion.
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jun 05, 2011 2:39 pm

My applogies for wrongly attributing the start of this thread - Very sorry! Will try to be more observant in future, and thankyou to the real originator for opening this interesting topic.
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Jun 05, 2011 3:15 pm

It was actually Admin (Ashley?) who started it and a very interesting topic it is too. I am surprised there has been so many replies which shows there are still people following the Ten Commandments. ' Rules for Life' might be a more relevant title for these modern times. They are necessary to make order out of chaos which would occur (and some might say is occurring) if they are not given thought. Not to lie would be my one most important thing in my life. Sometimes being 'economical with the truth' to quote, might sometimes be allowed so as not to cause hurt. People should have a very good memory if they lie because be assured you will slip up one day and be found out!
I think that the Bulgarians in our village are, by and large, God fearing and live by the Ten Commandments and a Papa always opens with a blessing at special events. No-one talks while he is chanting showing their respect.
This is a brilliant topic and well worth reading what various posters have taken the time to research and comment upon. T
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 14, 2011 6:26 pm

therowfamily wrote:
I've been reading this with great interest and thought I would do a little research so I half know what I'm talking about? before I start, I must point out that there are two different sets of the ten commandments – the Protestant interpretation and the Catholic interpretation.

The protestant commandments are:
1.Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.
2.Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
and showing mercy unto thousand of them that love me and keep my commandments.
3.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain;
for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4.Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord make heaven and earth, the sea and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5.Honour thy father and thy mother: that their days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
6.Thou shalt not kill.
7.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8.Thou shalt not steal.
9.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any think that is thy neighbour’s.

The ten catholic commandments are:
1.I am the Lord thy God;
thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
2.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
3.Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
4.Honour thy father and thy mother.
5.Thou shalt not kill.
6.Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7.Thou shalt not steal.
8.Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
9.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.
10.Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours’ goods.

But in looking at whether they are relevant today, we need to look at the context they were written in. Let’s go through the commandments individually.
For instance, the first commandment’s meaning is actually very different to what you take it to be. It does not say ‘worship no other gods’ because, at the time of the writing of the commandments, the Jews were not Polygamous. They believed in many gods, It wasn’t until much later that they came to realise there was only 1 God. So this commandment is not really relevant?

The second commandment differs. The Catholics have abolished this commandment, possibly because of the amount of images used in their churches. Interpretation differs, and some say it merely means no images of the aforementioned ‘other gods’. This commandment, though, however it is interpreted, is still relevant for today, as it’s a direct instruction on how to worship.

Taking the name of the Lord in vein is not, despite what people thinking things like ‘god damn’. It stems from a Hebrew belief, now changed in both Judaism and Christianity, that saying God’s name would call God. So it’s the equivalent of ‘do not call me for no real purpose’. As beliefs have so radically changed, this is no longer relevant.
Keeping the Sabbath holy is an instruction about how to live, saying ‘keep one day aside for thought and contemplation’. This still has relevance in the modern world, although we constantly find it harder to carry out.

The commandment ‘honour thy father and mother’ is usually seen as a relevant one – however, it’s meaning is very different to what we take it to be. In Hebrew society, a man was required to support and protect his ageing parents. This rule shows the insecurity of families in ancient times, and also the sexism – this rule could not apply to women, as they were automatically their husband’s ‘property’ and had to look after his parents – meaning the rules were written entirely for men.

The commandment ‘thou shalt not kill’ is relevant in any society. But its meaning is again different to what we expect. It is better translated as ‘thou shalt not commit unlawful murder’. Killing of innocents in wartime, for instance, was actively encouraged in the bible – so it also says nothing is wrong with suicide. This commandment is still relevant – but only when properly translated.

Thou shalt not steal is relatively simple, and still relative for today. No comment needed. The same can be said for the commandment on adultery.

On the commandment (or two commandments, depending on interpretation) on coveting/jealousy, the commandment itself is still relevant, but is riddled with prejudice – it seems to accept, for instance, that slavery is the norm.

In my opinion, these commandments are mainly still relevant for today, but only if properly translated, and looked at carefully, so that we follow the actual commandments and not just the ‘letter of the law’ (such as ultra-orthodox Jews getting a non-Jew to light a fire for them on the Sabbath). However, the laws are very clearly made in an entirely different society, and this must be taken into account.

oh dear...i've broken:
2.Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. - I swear a lot :X
3.Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. - some of us have chores to do and arent allowed to atend church :(
4.Honour thy father and thy mother. - dont even ask
5.Thou shalt not kill. - we have all stepped on an ant and killed a spider have we not?
6.Thou shalt not commit adultery. - urrghhhh...long story...my boyfriend is a jerk...dont ask
7.Thou shalt not steal. 1p sweets when i was a kid - but i think many of us have done that as childrennnn

la la laaaa laaaaa....*runs away quicky* Angel
...help needed? to repent? i think its called repenting? ugh im not a very good christian i know :(
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 14, 2011 8:01 pm

Learning God's wish for us and wanting to fall in with it doesn't automatically make us suddenly able to in every way. It's a journey. Discovering that we'd actually like to take it is a good beginning.
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Jun 14, 2011 8:29 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] this is an online bible study group with daily reading and discussion of bible passages. hope this helps. if you would like a copy of the bible i have several including a teenage one. s
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 15, 2011 9:00 pm

beautifulangel wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] this is an online bible study group with daily reading and discussion of bible passages. hope this helps. if you would like a copy of the bible i have several including a teenage one. s

the teenage one sounds interesting? i mersi za link :P
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 15, 2011 9:14 pm

if you want it. ok it with your parents and pm me your address and i'll post it to you. s
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeFri Jun 17, 2011 7:14 pm

beautifulangel wrote:
if you want it. ok it with your parents and pm me your address and i'll post it to you. s
hahahahahaha *dies of laughter* hahahaha ... it wuddent be ok with my mum hahaha she isnt religous and nor does she like me getting post haha but mersi anyway T
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jun 18, 2011 11:16 am

mechta wrote:
beautifulangel wrote:
if you want it. ok it with your parents and pm me your address and i'll post it to you. s
hahahahahaha *dies of laughter* hahahaha ... it wuddent be ok with my mum hahaha she isnt religous and nor does she like me getting post haha but mersi anyway T


Its a pity as there is a lot of life skills to be learned from reading parts of the bible.

sarah
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PostSubject: Re: The Ten Commandments   The Ten Commandments - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Jun 29, 2011 12:48 pm

Sarah wrote:
mechta wrote:
beautifulangel wrote:
if you want it. ok it with your parents and pm me your address and i'll post it to you. s
hahahahahaha *dies of laughter* hahahaha ... it wuddent be ok with my mum hahaha she isnt religous and nor does she like me getting post haha but mersi anyway T


Its a pity as there is a lot of life skills to be learned from reading parts of the bible.

sarah

i need all the life skills i can get haha
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