First topic message reminder :

Here is a debate for all us members to voice our opinions. It doesn't matter whether you live in the UK, Bulgaria or even Timbuctoo It should make some interesting reading, and the first thing I would like to ask is "what are the implications involved to UK citizens who live in the UK and have property in Bulgaria"



EU Membership: Reasons For And Against Leaving

There are pros and cons of Britain's membership in the EU. look at some key arguments on both sides of the debate.

There are strong arguments for and against Britain's EU membership

David Cameron has started negotiating a new deal with European Union partners ahead of a referendum on the UK's membership in the bloc.


Here are five of the reasons for and against Britain's membership of the EU.

Reasons To Stay

:: Millions of jobs are linked to our EU membership

As far back as the year 2000, it has been claimed that three million jobs rely directly on our membership of the European Union. The figure was even cited by Nick Clegg during his time as Deputy Prime Minister.

An analysis by Full Fact found that millions of jobs are linked to the EU, but said there is no evidence to show how many would be in jeopardy if we left.

:: Some of Britain's biggest trading partners are in the EU

Some of Britain's largest trading partners - including France and Germany - are in the EU.

More than 50% of our exports go to EU countries, and our membership allows us to have a say over how trading rules are drawn up.

:: It's easier than ever for us to work and travel abroad

Around 1.4 million British people live abroad in the EU, and having membership makes movement around the continent incredibly easy. Driving licences issued in the UK are valid in all EU countries.

:: Crime fighting

The European Arrest Warrant cuts out the need for long and complicated extradition procedures and allows criminals to be brought to justice across the EU.

:: Influence in the world

The EU is the world's biggest market and plays a big role in world trade, climate change issues, development projects and more.

It has the clout to take on multinationals such as Google and Microsoft. At the moment Britain plays a key role in the EU, and leaving would see us forgo that.

Reasons To Leave


:: Border control back in our hands

The flip side of the freedom of work and travel for UK citizens is that people from other EU countries are free to travel to and live in Britain.

UKIP leader Nigel Farage says any attempt by the Government to control immigration into the UK is futile as long as we are in the EU.

:: We could make a large membership fee saving

Like most clubs, the EU charges a membership fee, and it has been claimed that the cost is around £55m per day.

Analysis by Full Fact estimates the figure is closer to £24m per day when rebates and other receipts are taken into account.

:: Institutions are seen as lacking democracy

The European Parliament is directly elected, although the powerful Commission which proposes legislation is not.

Because many of these laws supersede legislation made by individual states' parliaments, some see the system as undemocratic.

:: Other countries successfully go it alone

Many Eurosceptics look to rich Norway as a country which trades with the EU without being in it. It also controls its own agriculture and keeps its fish, rather than being bound by EU quotas.

:: Get rid of any threat to Britain's military freedom

There is a push within the ranks of the EU's leaders for it to have its own army.

The president of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, said earlier this year that it would help show Russia the EU was serious about defending member values.

In the past the British Government has been forced to block moves to create EU-controlled military forces

Well the decision has been made, and there is bound to be a barrage of what, if's and Buts, but only time will tell
Before the big debate starts the below might be of interest ??

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Bill

Well assuming they don't try to change things???? How will this affect David Cameron? It is surely going to be a difficult task to rule a country that has shown it is against his politics. Will he do a U-turn? He failed in his bid to get changes even he wanted. Can the people be content with a man who voted against him; who showed him no support for his efforts to run their own ship?

Cameron will be around for a while. I think the 'vote leave, boot Cameron/Osborne!' thing was encouraged by those on Leave who wanted to entice angry Labour voters. Now Leave have won, Cameron will stay in for as long as it benefits the Tory party, when they think they will have the best chance of clinging to power.

Prime Minister David Cameron is to step down by October after the UK voted to leave the European Union.

Cameron had a lot of responsibility for the outcome and has rightly resigned immediately. But it is amazing how little responsibility Labour has taken thus far. The result was made possible by a huge shift of Labour voters in Labour heartlands to Leave. The shift by many Labour voters to UKIP at the last election should have been a huge warning sign, but Labour did not listen, and instead elected a person as its leader who has little traction in the North. Labour did not want to listen to people's concerns about immigration and other things (all swivel-eyed racists in many Labour politicians' view), and this is the outcome. Labour may fundamentally disagree with the people's concerns but they have the responsibility to engage with them, listen with an open mind and try to offer solutions. They did not, and here we are. Cameron is responsible, but so is Corbyn. The difference, of course, is that Corbyn will probably not resign.

The SNP are going to love it.

Salmon is already calling for a second referendum.

Sturgeon is just going to bide her time. She's probably in discussion with people at the EU already, that was one of the weaknesses in their out campaign last time, they won't make the same mistake.

Now the lovely Ruth Davidson, this is indeed a result of the worst possible outcome - another clear divide between Scotland and England.

I fully expect to see Scotland gone in the next few years.

Great news failed chancellor George should also go but will keep his head down and hope. He will no longer be in contention for leadership, again good news. Perhaps we can also get rid of the Aid payments to farcical causes and graft. I personally wouldn't want Boris in charge but would like to see Rees Mogg in the running. Corbyn's contribution to the debate was pathetic, can he really lead an opposition party or have any chance in a General Election, his position must also be in question.

What a day in the History of our nation. This is why we won two world wars. Yes the economy is reacting, but we expected the uncertainty. The uncertainty of independence we will take that battle willingly. Now our elected MPs are actually forced to do some work in negotiating the best fade deals whilst still keeping the ones in place as it's a act the EU needs UK more than the other way round. What a time to be alive. What a time to be British, and proud. Now, what day is our Independence Day? 23rd or 24th?
What we do not want is a defeatist in power, we need a leader who is committed to the exit negotiation, a leader who will get us the best deals possible and a leader who believes in us the people. We are negotiating from a position of strength and the EU knows it. they rely on us for their exports, and thousands of their people are in positions of responsibility within the UK. Our NHS system employs around 130,000 of them and We need them to remain in the UK which will benefit us as well as our former EU partners............The gang in Brussels needs now to realise that things within the EU must change, they must have elected leaders and they must listen to the people of the EU not just the elite. This change will come too late for the UK to benefit from, but hopefully the rest of the people of Europe will benefit from the stance that the people of Britain took today against the unelected presidents of the EU.

We are not out yet and with the track record of the perfidious "Remain" politicians, there is little doubt that they will be looking at ways to force a second referendum and/or will negotiate "Exit" deals with the EU that make our independence resemble the difference between a life sentence in a closed prison and a life sentence in an open prison. We will still be in prison but have the illusion of freedom. All freedom loving people of the UK should remain vigilant.

So David Cameron the PM who gave us six years of austerity and cuts and sold off large chunks of the NHS and under funded what was left , invented a bedroom tax for the poor and removed over 30,000 low paid families from their London homes and increased the national debt to 1.6 trillion pounds because he cut taxes for the wealthy and allowed giant corporations to decide how much tax they wanted to pay into the UK treasury on their huge UK profits , while constantly telling us "We are all in it together" Please don't let the door hit you on the way out Dave. Good bye

We just voted to break free and I believe we shall rise to be a great power in the world. We don't need Europe to survive. We don't need the EU and its petty small minded Eurocrats! like Junker and Tusk who hate us. Today is a great day for Britain, yes we may need to fasten the seatbelts for a bit of turbulence but we WILL get through to the smooth skies. There's more to this world than 27 declining countries in Europe, so now we have the greatest opportunity for years in our hands - let's hope we can find some strong leaders with some backbone to lead us with optimism on our new path.

I find it amazing that brits who live in the EU would want the UK to leave ,what about your health care pensions etc ,or will all the sick expats come back to the Uk to put more strain on the nhs,and do you really believe that all the so called extra cash will go to the NHS,
will all the lazy benefit claiming brits do all the crappy jobs the eastern Europeans do picking fruit veg etc . Boris Johnson as prime minister Michael gove as deputy prime minister (he really lied the NHS ) better still Corbyn as prime minister, See you all back in the UK when the Europeans kick us all out.

What next ??? Nothing is going to change overnight - but now the EU can see that we will not be patronized. The remainers may believe that we would be better in the EU but as one of the biggest contributors we are constantly told to pay up and shut up. The EU is intent on punishing us whether we stay in or out and is keen to tell us what to do. We may have had a veto but when the majority of EU members vote against us - it is not worth anything. If people are so keen to travel to the UK because the jobs and economy is better then maybe we should have executed a coup and said we'll take over and run the EU because our policies work and told the rest of the EU actually our way is better than yours and maybe you would do well to follow our lead!!

What will happen to expats?? More than 1.2million British expats live in the EU - mainly in countries such as Spain, Ireland and France - according to the UN. No-one is suggesting that people will be repatriated from this country or repatriated from anywhere else. “It would be impossible to implement but also incredibly damaging economically.” Britain would become part of the European Economic Area (EEA) in a similar way to Norway and Switzerland, As a result, “not very much” would change for expats. “They will carry on pretty much as before."

The Vienna Convention of 1969 states that people keep the rights that they once exercised under a treaty, even if that treaty is later terminated. Therefore expats in Europe would retain their “acquired right” to stay there, but it would not apply to people who move abroad in the future.

I have a question for you Andy...

I've read through the extensive list of companies etc. you posted earlier...the ones which are no longer in the UK.

May I ask where you obtained that info?

Do you have a link or links to an official source?

oldian wrote:

I find it amazing that brits who live in the EU would want the UK to leave ,what about your health care pensions etc ,or will all the sick expats come back to the Uk to put more strain on the nhs,and do you really believe that all the so called extra cash will go to the NHS,
will all the lazy benefit claiming brits do all the crappy jobs the eastern Europeans do picking fruit veg etc . Boris Johnson as prime minister  Michael gove as deputy prime minister (he really lied the NHS ) better still Corbyn as prime minister, See you all back in the UK when the Europeans kick us all out.

It's possible, but unlikely - not least given that it would open the door to retaliatory measures from the UK which hosts its own share of expats from European nations: there are as many as 3 million EU nationals living in Britain. British expats can also claim to pay their own way in Europe, as the UK paid£674 million in 2014-2015 to other European countries for the treatment of UK nationals. However, the UK received just £49 million from other European nations in the same year to treat those from other countries residing in the UK.